Casual Guild Forums
General Category => Arenas => Topic started by: Bag on January 21, 2009, 07:22:10 AM
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Quote from: Wryxian, With the release of patch 3.0.8 we have implemented a new matchmaking system for arenas that will improve the overall system and help ensure that players will be matched against others of equal skill. The new matchmaking system uses a rating that you cannot see, and is separate for each of the arena brackets.
The rating changes at the end of each match are affected by this new system, and as it just came out, there may initially be some odd behavior in rating changes, but these will straighten out fairly quickly.
We will monitor this new system and update it as needed to help provide the best experience possible in arena matches.
So it is working as intended.....
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post is old news. system is clearly broken and I'm confident that our friends at blizzard will resolve this unfortunate hiccup. give me good news before I blow my head off, but not before quitting wow.
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You fail to understand what blizzard has done to the arena system.
Imagine if raid bosses dropped 10 pieces of gear every time you wipe on them. If you manage to kill the boss, every item you have equipped is destroyed.
That is what blizzard has done to the arena system. There is absolutely no correlation between success and reward anymore. Some people can get 2k plus even while losing, where as other people can win nearly all their games and go down in rating.
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You fail to understand what blizzard has done to the arena system.
Imagine if raid bosses dropped 10 pieces of gear every time you wipe on them. If you manage to kill the boss, every item you have equipped is destroyed.
That is what blizzard has done to the arena system. There is absolutely no correlation between success and reward anymore. Some people can get 2k plus even while losing, where as other people can win nearly all their games and go down in rating.
Which is why it just must be a big mistake and we're all up in arms about nothing. I mean they can't have failed to mention an utter and complete revamp of the most successful / popular part of wow PvP in patch notes anywhere at all. It has to be just a big mixup and everything will be alright when I wake up. Right?
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I think they just casualized it.
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it's a mistake or I am actually quitting. gotta be a mistake. gotta be.
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The new posts from Wryxian are just copies of Bornaxx's posts for the EU forums. No new news has been released. I'd imagine they are in "holy shit what the fuck happened?" mode. They've had less than 24 hours to figure out what part of the code is fucked.
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The new posts from Wryxian are just copies of Bornaxx's posts for the EU forums. No new news has been released. I'd imagine they are in "holy shit what the fuck happened?" mode. They've had less than 24 hours to figure out what part of the code is fucked.
keep reassuring me. I'm one step closer to the edge and I'm about to BREAK
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(http://www.mosaicodiffusion.com/picts/LinkinPark_by%20James%20Minchin.jpg)
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DIABLO DIABLO, WHEREFORE ART THOU DIABLO?
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3.0.8 Arena
If you've read my articles here since WotLK started, you'd know that I've written many articles on how to improve the game including a thorough class balance analysis as well as countless detailed suggestions. That said, make no doubt about it, this article is a rant, and deservedly so. I believe the arena competitors, general playerbase, and myself deserve it.
Just when I thought arena couldn't get anymore stupid, Blizzard manages to prove me wrong. It's bad enough that the time investment for little to no gain beyond bragging rights is downright not worth the effort, or the fact that the queue times are absolutely ridiculous at higher ratings, but 3.0.8 was really just salt in the wounds. The old system had its flaws, but it never came to being anywhere close to as stupid as the new system already is.
What this patch has effectively done, to the best of my judgement, is basically remove the "risk" from the risk:reward equation when competing in arena. If you're high rated and you lose, you lose basically nothing. If you're low rated and you win, you gain rating at an astronomical rate. From what I was told, the reasoning behind this was to essentially "hyper accelerate players to the rating they 'should' be at." Of course, this new system is not only incredibly flawed, but completely undocumented and untested on the latest PTR, leaving internal testing as the only type done. Boy, I have high expectations for Ulduar already!
From what most people can gather, the new system basically uses a character's total amount of gear and ranks them accordingly with the combined and/or averaged weight of the item level of all of the gear in their possession. The reason why I personally feel this to be true is after playing lots of 3v3 games tonight, and ending with personal ratings of around 2850, 2900, and 2950 (roughly) on the 3 different classes makes it seem pretty obvious. The hunter who has the least amount of gear (because hunters only have 1 role/spec) had the highest PR because they had the lowest item level weight. The Death Knight (who has tanking and DPS gear) came in with the middle-value PR, and the paladin with gear for all 3 specs/roles game in with the lowest PR despite all of us playing an identical number of games (all of us have played 100%).
The biggest flaws here are not only the fact that personal ratings are completely and utterly broken (and thus completely trivialize achievements/titles such as Arena Master and Flawless Victor), but even if the PR changes wern't completely idiotic, the team rating changes themselves have been seemingly random with a huge number of reports that people's teams are receiving drastically different gains/losses from playing the same team.
This debacle has virtually invalidated this entire season to this point. Even though it's been a rather stupid season, you can't say that making everyone's efforts to this point worthless is a good decision. Simply put, the ladder is now more of a joke than it has ever been since the first arena season in TBC, people are getting gear, titles, and achievements that they simply do not deserve, and furthermore the system is easily exploitable with manipulation of the matchmaking system (specifically with regards to gear).
The only realistic way to solve this is to simply roll back the arena ladders, including all games played, all ratings earned/lost, all gear purchased, all points spent, all achievements and titles earned, and everything else in between back to the state that it was before the servers patched to 3.0.8. If the arena system stays in the current laughable and pathetic form that it is in now, I know for a fact that many people will outright quit the game as it completely ruins the one thing they enjoyed playing for still: the competitive ladder.
Greg, stop counting your money and start issuing orders.
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and for a lol:
Now that you've made DKs weaker than warlocks how about giving us an MS equivalent so we can actually be useful in any arena bracket ?
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and for a lol:
Now that you've made DKs weaker than warlocks how about giving us an MS equivalent so we can actually be useful in any arena bracket ?
You were right. I lol'd.
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Yeah, I just read the entirety of Serennia's post on Wowriot, and I think I might wanna try frost mage/frost dk sometime.
Assuming Blizzard fixes arenas, of course.
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DK's are a joke now, regardless of spec.
Yeah, probably quitting pvp in general if this shit stays the way it is. Having 2700+ PR is fun, but fuck having no competition.
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how are dks jokes now?
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still no update?
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Whether or not this new system will adjust after a while, I don't understand why they would try to change the system in the middle of the season. It's fairly common sense not to change things mid-go. Seems like they are really pushing to make people go casual or quit.
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how are dks jokes now?
DK's get raped since you can't D up so hardcore. Focusing a dk against 2dps never worked since you could shield wall for so long, now it's so easy to smash one.
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http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14498531214&pageNo=8&sid=1#142
There is a new matchmaking system. It has some bugs. We can fix the bugs without doing permanent damage to anyone involved in Arenas.
Long term, we are confident that the new system will provide for better matchmaking and therefore a better Arena experience. The new system also measures skill, not gear.
I know this sounds very politician-y, but I am not going to be able to answer any additional questions at this time. This is a big topic, so we need to address it through public announcements and not forum posts.
Thank you for your patience. The game will be better in the long run for these changes.
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Arena queue NPCs have been removed, at least on Mal'ganis.
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Arena queue NPCs have been removed, at least on Mal'ganis.
They have been on Hyjal and just about every other server as well.
We have temporarily disabled all Arena matches while we investigate current rating calculation discrepancies. Further updates will be provided once we have additional information to share.
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what a fucking joke. at least it's been acknowledged. good thing that took way too fucking long.
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Earlier this week the Arenas were temporarily disabled while we investigated rating calculation discrepancies. After thorough research, we have identified and created a solution to the issue, and we will be bringing the Arenas back online following off hours maintenance with the fix in place. Please be aware that because the rating issues were extensive, we have decided to reset Arena team and personal ratings to last week’s status. In addition, items and achievements which were gained illegitimately with incorrect ratings will be removed, and the spent arena points refunded. We thank you for your patience while we worked through these issues related to the Arenas.
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SCORE
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Team / Personal / Matchmaking Rating
Because of the way the new system works, there has been some question as to the purpose of each of the different ratings, so here goes:
* Team rating: Team rating is the primary measure of a team’s skill during the course of its existence. Titles and arena points are based on team rating.
* Personal rating: Personal rating only exists to ensure that a player has participated enough on a team to deserve the benefits of being on that team. When personal rating gets close enough to team rating, we judge it is likely the player deserves the benefits of the team.
* Matchmaking rating: This rating exists to ensure quality match-making despite players changing teams. In addition, the theoretical mathematical foundations of the new matchmaking system allows this rating to adapt much faster than team rating and personal rating, making the entire system more correct. In our measurements to date, this rating has been quite precise in predicting the outcomes of future matches.
One important point to note is that the personal rating currently converges towards the matchmaking rating instead of the team rating, which we realize can cause lot of confusion and frustration. We will be making an adjustment in the near future that will cause the personal rating to converge towards the team rating instead of the matchmaking rating, which should alleviate much of the current concerns.
Same team, different Matchmaking Rating
Partners on the same team can have diverging team ratings if their matchmaking ratings are different. As mentioned above, we will be adjusting it so that personal rating will no longer diverge from team rating and will instead always converge towards it.
Team / Personal rating convergence
Team rating currently converges towards the average of the matchmaking ratings on the team. Personal rating currently converges towards each individual's matchmaking rating. As such, the team rating currently ends up in the middle of the personal ratings of each member of the team, usually around the average personal rating of the team. As mentioned above, we will be adjusting this to keep personal ratings in line with team ratings. (Source)
Past Win/Loss and new ratings
We included history from before the implementation of the new system in determining the matchmaking rating. If you or your partner played with another player before the new system, data from those games would also be included in your current matchmaking rating.
My only question is if a team has a good MMR, but a terrible TR, why put them against a 1900ish team to lose 6, and the 1900 team win zero?
This would happen if:
1. They are matched because the first team's matchmaking rating is near the second team's matchmaking rating.
2. The first team doesn't lose a lot because their team rating is lower than than the second team's matchmaking rating.
3. The second team doesn't win a lot because their team rating is higher than the first team's matchmaking rating.
Matchmaking rating on different brackets
The matchmaking rating is separate for each bracket, and the matchmaking ratings do not interact between brackets in any way.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/11/14697300427-new-arena-matchmaking-system-overview.html
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yeh I read that. somewhat encouraging.
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(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3421/thearcanatorka5.jpg)
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hha