AquaDKP FAQ

[aquasheep]

Greetings fellow raiders! Are you fed up with your current system of loot distribution? Do you feel like you have been unfairly shafted out of gear? Does it just take too long for your guild to decide who gets what after a boss dies? Worried how this will transition to Ulduar?

Lonesome no more!

I am making public Casual's AquaDKP system of loot distribution, bidding, and tracking. Previously exclusive to Casual and select other guilds, you too can take advantage of a fair, balanced, and most importantly, easy to administer DKP system for your raids.

Below are some questions you may be asking yourself:

1. What exactly is AquaDKP?
2. What separates your in-game addon from some other DKP tracker I can get from Curse?
3. Why would I want to switch to the AquaDKP system over my current DKP system?
4. No DKP system is perfect, how can you claim AquaDKP is?
5. I'm convinced, how much and give it to me. (Pricing and support)
6. Well what does it look like?

Additionally, a complete description of the system can be found here: AquaDKP System

[aquasheep]

1. What exactly is AquaDKP?

AquaDKP consists of three parts:
a) A web-based raid/standings tracker, based on EQDKPPlus
b) An in-game standings list and loot-bidding handler, that automatically handles and sorts loot bids
c) A tried-and-true DKP system for earning points, prioritizing loot, and encouraging members to show up


As you progress through instances, members are awarded AquaDKP points based on raids they attend. These points are tracked in both the EQDKP web interface, for offline viewing by members, and in-game so that the addon knows who should be awarded loot based on the AquaDKP system. Loot bids are handled in-game through simple tells. The addon will then capture all gear looted, for uploading to the EQDKP site.

[aquasheep]

2. What separates your in-game addon from some other DKP tracker I can get from Curse?

The problem with many other addons, or other DKP system packages, is that they generally only provide half the solution. An addon by itself might be able to handle loot auctions, but it won't be able to import, and therefore, prioritize people based on an external DKP website. A DKP tracker on a website might provide a barebones mod for exporting raid attendance and loot for tracking, but it won't allow you to auction off loot and use the standings in-game.

AquaDKP allows you to handle any loot related tasks in-game smoothly with full integration from the DKP website. The loot handler is able to see a list of who is bidding on what loot, with the ability to let the mod sort bids automatically, or the option to do it manually. Raid members get immediate feedback that their bid was accepted, and they're able to query how many other bidders there are, and their position in the list. No one else needs to install the addon other than the loot handler. Once the loot is awarded, the addon tracks everything looted, and you are able to export the attendance, loot, and DKP charged over to the website, which will do the necessary math to keep everything updated.

In addition, by purchasing AquaDKP (depending on the package, see below), you have me directly on Hyjal as technical support. I help you install, configure, and maintain the addon. If a new patch is released that breaks the addon, no need to wait for an update on Curse that might never come, I can immediately provide an updated version.

[aquasheep]

3. Why would I want to switch to the AquaDKP system over my current DKP system?

AquaDKP takes into account many of the shortfalls of popular systems and attempts to address them. The primary goal of AquaDKP is not only to make sure that loot is awarded fairly, but also to encourage looting and spending DKP in general. Allowing gear to rot that would otherwise be an upgrade for someone is counterintuitive to progression. Here is a non-comprehensive summary of many other DKP system alternatives, and the major negatives avoided with AquaDKP:

a) Zero-sum: Zero-sum systems are based on the idea that any DKP spent is given back to the rest of the members. For example, if an item is looted for 25 DKP, those 25 points are redistributed back to the rest of the raid members, so everyone gains 1 DKP for that boss kill. However, zero-sum systems usually fail to take into account learning attempts: if you are stuck on a brand new, difficult boss for a week without killing it, nothing is looted, and therefore, no one earns DKP. This causes people to not log on during learning attempts, because there's no incentive for them to be there. The end result is that on easy, farmable content, you will have far more raiders than raid spots, but on learning content where you need your best and brightest to show up to progress, you suddenly only have 20 half-hearted raiders.

AquaDKP counters this by only awarding DKP during hourly attendance. Since learning attempts comprise a large number of hours wiping, raiders will earn the most amount of DKP during these nights. Since DKP is not awarded on actual boss kills, farm nights will result in a small amount of DKP. People will still show up so that they can get loot, but will be far less inclined to skip the important progression nights.

b) Fixed-cost: Fixed-cost systems are a straightforward method of awarding loot based on a consistent set of prices for loot. For example, all daggers may cost 10 DKP, so everyone pays that much for a dagger. This system initially works well, until people start becoming reluctant to pay full price for minor upgrades. Why should I pay 10 DKP for this dagger off Kel'Thuzad, when it's only a small upgrade over this Sapphiron dagger I just bought 5 minutes ago? Alternatively, why should I pay 10 DKP for this healing weapon when I am DPS spec? This causes people to horde their points for the best items, skipping intermediate items that may still be upgrades, but makes it ultimately too expensive too buy both. This also causes off-spec loot to rot, since no one wants to pay full price for an item they may only use in PVP.

AquaDKP handles this in two ways: first, by having multiple bid systems. Normal bids for main-spec items are based on a fixed-cost system, determined by the ilvl of the loot. Off-spec bids can be made at a lower priority than main-spec bids, for drastically less DKP, allowing loot to go to someone that will use it, instead of letting it be disenchanted. On the rare instances that PVP-specific items drop from PVE bosses (e.g. Archavon), these items also have special prices, allowing people to bid on them without affecting their competitive position for looting PVE gear. Finally, if someone has already looted an item for that slot in that dungeon, they can make an upgrade bid for a much smaller amount than full-price, and again, lower priority than someone bidding full.

Second, AquaDKP handles this is via a tiered system for loot. Each set of dungeons is in its own tier. As an example, Naxxramas, Malygos, and Sartharion are in one tier. Any upcoming raid dungeons (Ulduar) will be in the next tier up. DKP standings are not shared between tiers, which encourages people to spend their DKP in the current tier, instead of trying to horde them up for the next tier. It also means that long-term members who have been in the guild for years are not untouchable in their DKP, as every new dungeon tier puts all the current members on equal footing.

c) Suicide kings: Suicide kings are a round-robin based system of loot distribution. Once you loot a piece of gear, you drop to the bottom of the priority list. Unfortunately, as many people know, some pieces of gear are more useful than others. For instance, for a melee class, a weapon is going to be far more important for their DPS than say, a ring. Treating all loot as equal means that a lot of loot will go to rot, as people try to save their position in the list for more desirable items. You will also find you run into the same problem as fixed-cost DKP systems, where people will refrain from looting for the entire instance until you get to the really good loot (Kel'Thuzad).

AquaDKP avoids this by weighting item prices based on their relative importance. Two-handers are not worth the same as a one-hander, so why treat them equally? With AquaDKP, a 2H weapon costs roughly twice as much as a 1H weapon. Other slots are weighted similarly, so any price you pay should be roughly what that item is worth to you.

d) Auctions: Auctions allow people to bid on items based on what they think an item is worth. The DKP they are willing to spend is sent to the loot handler, who awards items based on who bids more. This is very susceptible to coercion between players. If there are two rogues in the guild, they can collaborate between themselves to bid very low (1 DKP) on strictly rogue-based gear such as daggers, since they know there will be little competition. This allows them to remain high on the list for high competition items, such as trinkets or set tokens. This also has a side-effect of skewed costs for items based entirely on who else is in the raid. Raiders may feel it is unfair that someone only spent 1-2 points on an item compared to 20-30, simply because everyone else that needed it was not in the raid.

Since AquaDKP is on a fixed-cost foundation, items are never priced differently (aside from off-spec or upgrade loot), so no one feels they spent an unfair amount of DKP on anything. While members can still collaborate amongst themselves, it is primarily to decide whether someone who is higher up on the list wants to pass to someone who might want or need the loot more, which is much more beneficial for the raid as a whole.

e) Weighted rolls: Weighted rolls are based on the need/greed loot rolling structure already in the game, but modified based on DKP/attendance. While it gives slightly higher priority to people with more DKP or more attendance, it still falls down to random chance. This leads to a lot of tension between raiders, as it may award loot to someone who has already looted several things already and who should be lower on the list. It may also award loot to someone whose attendance is normally very low over someone who is 100%, who feels they deserve it more.

AquaDKP addresses this by incorporating attendance into DKP priority. Primarily, the DKP prices and DKP awarded are structured such that no one can loot more than a few pieces of loot before dropping on the list enough for someone else to take priority. However, attendance is also added into the equation by creating tiers for 60-day attendance percentages. Those with 75% or higher 60-day attendance have first shot at loot based on the DKP standings, followed by those with 50% or higher, and then those with 0% or higher. This means that someone may accumulate a lot of DKP, but if they have a tendency to not show up for learning attempts, their 60-day will drop below 75%, meaning they are unable to take loot away from someone who has maintained 100% attendance for every single raid. This also ensures that new members must "earn" their priority in the list. While they can start collecting DKP right away, it will take some time before they are allowed to bid at the same priority as full, established members.

[aquasheep]

4. No DKP system is perfect, how can you claim AquaDKP is?

You are correct, AquaDKP is not a silver bullet for awarding loot. However, as shown above, many of the disadvantages of other loot systems have either been avoided completely or mitigated as much as possible. For instance, AquaDKP is based on fixed-cost DKP. Many people try fixed-cost, and find that it causes very high inflation, as people collect more DKP than they spend, and long-time raiders end up with insurmountable amounts of DKP over new members. So, they turn to zero-sum, which is designed to correct inflation. AquaDKP doesn't avoid this entirely, but mitigates it through the use of

a) Attendance tiers (old members cannot collect thousands of points, disappear for three months, then come back and expect top priority on loot)
b) Dungeon tiers (all members are at the same footing for every new dungeon that comes out)
c) Emphasis on learning attempts rather than boss kills (any inflation that does occur tends to favor members that have stuck through months of wiping with the guild, and in most cases, this reflects their dedication).

We have been using AquaDKP since the start of Burning Crusade, and many of the prominent issues have since been ironed out. Most members can attest that it works extremely well.

[aquasheep]

5. I'm convinced, how much and give it to me.

Excellent. Here's how this works: if you'd like more information, PM me here. You can also try to get a hold of me in-game, but if I am doing arenas or raiding, don't expect an immediate response.

I charge for AquaDKP based on a sliding support scale. You are not simply buying the mod, you are paying for my assistance in getting the system set up and making a transition from your existing system as smooth as possible.

Package 1 (7000g): Already have an existing EQDKPPlus installation? This will buy you a link to the addon, as well as any specific tailoring that needs to be done (Perhaps you think the item slot weights should be difference? Maybe you want to charge more for offspec loot? Not a problem).

Package 2 (15000g): Need some help installing EQDKPPlus or transitioning your current DKP page over? This will buy you the addon and tailoring, as well as personalized support getting EQDKPPlus up and running (Weird errors getting it installed? Already have raids and existing DKP standings that you don't want to lose? I can troubleshoot, walk you through it, and help migrate your raids to EQDKPPlus).

Package 3 (40000g): Don't want to do any work at all? If you provide me access to your webhost, I will install EQDKPPlus, any MySQL databases, and set the entire system up for you, so you will be good from the get go.

Package 4: Something in the middle? Talk to me and we can negotiate special pricing.

All packages come with support for as long as I play the game.


These prices may seem high to an individual, but this is targeted towards guilds with established guild banks. Our DKP system has been designed with progression in mind, and it will absolutely help reduce loot drama and allow your guild to focus on the more important aspects of raiding.


Still not sure whether it's worth it? Let me provide a scenario. Let's say you are a DKP officer in your guild, and  a boss has died. You need to do loot. You need to keep track of everyone that sends you a tell, what loot they want, and depending on your system, you may need to tab out to a website to see where people are on the list for priority. Doing all that manually is always prone to error, and people won't like it if a mistake is made. Once people loot, you have to remember who looted what. How much it all cost. Enter it into a website somewhere. How much time does this take? Are you holding up the whole guild?

Let's say it takes you five minutes per boss to do loot. Not too long, right? There are *fifteen* bosses in Naxx. A full clear is 75 minutes of loot time, not including trash drops. Rumor has it that Ulduar too will have something like 10 bosses. Wouldn't that time be better spent doing something else? AquaDKP is not just a robust DKP system, but the addon allows you to do loot in a fraction of the time. If you cut the loot time to just one minute per boss, that saves you an hour of everyone standing around waiting for loot to be finished. How much gold is that hour worth to your guild, over the course of several months?

[aquasheep]

6. Well what does it look like?

A few examples of how the mod looks like in-game (portions of the UI not relevant to the mod have been grayed out to make it easier to point out). Click each image for a larger version:

Single item, with both my view and the player's view. Note that individual bidders get an auto-reply when they request an item, but these replies are hidden on my end, so my chat window isn't spammed:


Single item, with special "upgrade" bid:


Single item, with two bidders and reported list. Note that the second bidder is informed of their position in the list in the auto-reply, as well as how much DKP the current top person has:


Example of the in-game DKP standings list. This list can be queried by members any time I am online:


Actual raid, auctioning off six items at once, as well as taking attendance. This is a typical example of how my UI looks after a boss dies:

Call to undefined function show_bottomAds()