Digo's health care thread

[Digo]

Most of the support is based on correlational data that doesn't take into numerous confounding variables (increases in the population, autism aware of doctors, etc.)

DING DING DING

unfortunately, trying to explain this to someone who has made up their mind that western medicine is the devil is like trying to explain to a born-again christian that the world really isn't 6,000 years old. no amount of evidence will convince them.

[Bag]

Digo, I said I'm gonna pork your daughter dawg.

[Samslara]

Money always speaks volumes, so tell her either the kid gets the vaccine or the allowance shrinks.

[Gadz]

is like trying to explain to a born-again christian that the world really isn't 6,000 years old. no amount of evidence will convince them.

I remember talking to girl while I was in college who believed this was true.  It was like talking to a wall.  No reason what so ever made a difference.  Seeing people like that blindly follow a faith has turned me off of religion completely.

 So to get on topic.  People who don't immunize their children should be shot for child neglect.   

[Bag]

how about just arresting them for reckless endangerment

[Burg]

a lot of schools and colleges now don't allow people in without up to date immunization records, so unless Amy feels like home schooling your kid for 12 years ....

[Binks]

I had to send an immunization form to Mankato

[Drug]

Immunizations are safe, effective, and provide a wealth of benefits that outweigh any concerns.

Just to quickly address some of the points brought up in this thread:

1) Autism.  Many years ago mercury was a component in some vaccines (it no longer is).  Mercury was thought to lead to autism.  In fact, one tuna steak has more mercury in it than all the vaccinations given in Louisiana each day.  In addition, the definintion of autism has broadened into the 'autism spectrum disorders'.  Since the definition is so broad now, it is easy for curbside scientists to show correlation between almost anything and autism.  Remember, correlation does not equal caussation.

2) There is ALWAYS a slim chance that any inoculation/treatment/food/stepping outside/driving a car can cause damage.  Vaccinations are proven to be safe.  That being said, it is hard to argue with a mother who suspects here child is the "one in a million"

3) The "Well I didn't get vaccinated and I'm fine" is based on the theory of herd immunity.  If you have 1000 people, and you vaccinate 990 of them, the odds that the 10 un vaccinated people will get disease is slim to none, primarily due to the fact that the vast majority cannot function as carriers or vectors.  The scary thing is this:  What happens when people stop taking vaccines?  Herd immunity breaks down, and we are stuck with an outbreak the likes of the 1918 flu epidemic (read about it).

Get your kids vaccines, talk to your pediatricians, and always ask questions.  I commend you and your wife for taking an objective look at the issue, but bottom line, I always advocate for vaccinations in my office.



Oh and btw, its actually not a big money maker for the physicians, it costs way more to store the vaccine properly than we are reimbursed by the insurance companies for giving them to patients.

Peace,


Btw grats on guild accomplishments

-Drug
Dwarfmafia Agent

[Burg]

Like Galactus coming to eat a planet, Drug has returned to impart great knowledge on this board about all things medical. 

(read: people will ask about boners and stds)

[aquasheep]

Drug,

I got a flu vaccine and now have a persistent erection, what should I do?

Sincerely,
-Aqua

[Digo]

Get your kids vaccines, talk to your pediatricians, and always ask questions.  I commend you and your wife for taking an objective look at the issue, but bottom line, I always advocate for vaccinations in my office.

Oh and btw, its actually not a big money maker for the physicians, it costs way more to store the vaccine properly than we are reimbursed by the insurance companies for giving them to patients.

heh, i've only been objective in the sense that i want conclusive evidence -- not just conjecture from uneducated, paranoid mothers -- before i decide that vaccines are harmful. i've been incredibly skeptical about the anti-vaccination movement. in fact, i'm a little annoyed when doctors (please don't take offense at this) say things like "i commend you for researching this!" when all the parents are doing is reading a bunch of insipid blogs from quacks and celebrities....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5WTaLnDPY4

... and then mistaking correlation with causation. god, jenny mccarthy is an idiot. watching that video makes me furious.

anyway, sorry. i get annoyed at what seems like cursory respect from physicians to these people. how can you guys not just want to get the torches and kill the stupidity before it spreads? is this something that doctors say just to get them to shut the fuck up?

oh, and question about the vaccine costs. i was told that doctors in the provider network are given mandates from the insurance companies about what kind of care they must provide in order to be part of the network. if i were an insurance company, i would absofuckinglutely want them to adhere to these standards, right? if i prescribe vaccinations and drugs that make people not get sick, then that means they don't have to go to the doctor, which means i don't have to pay the doctors to treat them, which means i make more profit, right? am i missing something here?

do you have a link to the costs of storing the vaccines vs. what you're actually reimbursed for? i would love to see that so i can show it to her.

she hasn't been objective at all. her father is a "doctor of oriental medicine" whatever the fuck that means, and so she's convinced that because it worked for her and her sister, then it must be sound science. her father is also a tinfoil conspiracy nut. you can imagine this makes for exciting marital drama.

from her dad's site:

Modern science has verified the effectiveness of TCM which is over 7,000 years old. New techniques can be used simultaneously to enhance the healing effects. Among these are:
(1) Sound healing using tuning forks
(2) Tibetan bell sonics
(3) Natural organic rhythms, i.e. ocean waves, which allow the body to reach deep states of relaxation leading to profound physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual healing
(4) Cold laser and electrical stimulation of acupoints which can access difficult injuries to relieve pain and accelerate healing.

tuning forks? are you fucking joking?

[Digo]

oh, and read about the poling case. they awarded those parents money WITHOUT A HEARING. the court completely abandoned preponderance of evidence, no expert testimony, nothing. what the fuck were they thinking? it's like they opened the floodgate for stupidity and frivolous, baseless lawsuits.

[Gadz]

In terms of the reimbursement for a physician for vaccinating, its nothing.  I handled a lot of the billing for my parent's general practice and the physician ends up losing money on each immunization that they give when you figure in the cost of the nurse and the vaccine.  Medicaid won't even reimburse for the cost of the vaccine which could range from $30-100.   You get $7 for giving a shot...thats it.  So if the physician bought the vaccine themself, they are losing potentially $93 each shot before you even factor in operating costs.  This is a extreme case and private insurances reimburse better then the government since they actually factor in the cost of the vaccine.

My parents actually stopped doing vaccinations because they were losing so much money on it.  Now they just have parents go to a health clinic for all their kids immunizations.

Edit.  Just called to confirm and my mom (former ER doctor) said that immunizations are perfectly safe and it has been proven that they do not cause autism.

[Kojack]

Give me your mom's number, I'd like to discuss this and other topics.

[Digo]

In terms of the reimbursement for a physician for vaccinating, its nothing.  I handled a lot of the billing for my parent's general practice and the physician ends up losing money on each immunization that they give when you figure in the cost of the nurse and the vaccine.  Medicaid won't even reimburse for the cost of the vaccine which could range from $30-100.   You get $7 for giving a shot...thats it.  So if the physician bought the vaccine themself, they are losing potentially $93 each shot before you even factor in operating costs.  This is a extreme case and private insurances reimburse better then the government since they actually factor in the cost of the vaccine.

My parents actually stopped doing vaccinations because they were losing so much money on it.  Now they just have parents go to a health clinic for all their kids immunizations.

now imagine if these retarded class action suits go to trial and a bunch of emotionally swayed, ignorant jurors start awarding them money. bye-bye government funding for free vaccinations!

hi2u polio/smallpox/whatever. it's nice to see you again!

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